The Great WAR Rebalance


#1

I saw this in the post concerning the re-release of War (this is a little dated now, but the same problems persist)

Before the Battle Begins
1. All that said, there are a few things players should keep in mind about matching and balance going into to our first War after these fixes are in place:
2. While improvements have been made, wait times are dependant on player’s faction skill and position in queue with comparison to other factions.
3. We have placed an additional hard limit on the maximum difference in team strength between factions to prevent severe mismatches.
4. It may take some factions approx 15 to 20 minutes to match, based on these factors.

Some simple changes to War can address the above

  1. Eliminating the matching delay (since the ‘mismatch’ awards additional attacks to the lower faction, there’s less concern of who you match)
  2. And make things much more competitive in general (although I expect the larger spenders still win given the better rosters),
  3. And add a level of strategy currently lacking. War today is a mini-raid tournament with those who spend winning…. every… single….time.

Most would agree War is hopelessly broken with predetermined results, it would be nice if something could shake that up.

Some of these ideas are similar to what @TheSurvivor advocated long ago in his thread

These proposals are relatively simple, it would not require many changes to the current infrastructure.

I understand this would

  • Require new coding which will have its own set of new bugs
  • Make less money for Scopely and thus will never happen
  • And that p2w would not like losing their “paid for” advantage, but now they would show us all how to “g i t g u d” :slight_smile:

Total score is still the mechanism to rank the leaderboard.

I’ll start with the least controversial changes and work my way up :wink:

War time

Wars are now 30 minutes given the more aggressive timings on other items.

Surrender

  • Surrender is available 5 minutes after war starts

  • Once surrender is issued, all in-flight fights are allowed to conclude, no new ones can start. Once last in-flight fight ends, war ends. That is a maximum of 5 minutes. The new surrender rules in the 9/15 update increased the timeout from 10 to 20 minutes. That’s BAD! Surrender should mean Surrender!

  • If the Leading faction surrenders, its faction score is lowered to half of the Losing team. Losing team then adds Winning Bonus to its score. Individual scores in the Leading faction are unaffected, just the amount credited for the overall ranking of the faction.

  • If the Losing faction surrenders, same rules on in-flight fights, Leading faction receives Winning bonus. This is unchanged from current behavior.

Feeding

  • Lowering defense to “one man” or some similar setup with obvious feeding intent (some formula involving total dogtag amount deployed vs available based on roster) locks that defense team for the remainder of the event. That will stop the behavior immediately. Yes, I understand some place fake defenses prior to war, now you just need to make sure it’s not too junky. Choose wisely!

The Big Rebalance

For the following two items, Insta-rebuilds and War cans become a faction wide resource (individuals are still responsible for having the coins and cans). The formulas listed are a guess and should be adjusted for proper balance of allowing wars to continue even when factions are “mismatched”. By limiting the higher ranked faction, the lower faction may be able to beat once invulnerable opponents who now cannot endlessly coin.

Insta-rebuilds

  • Depending on the rank of your faction at the start of war, a faction limit is set of how many insta-rebuilds may be done, once those are exhausted, only normal rebuild is done, cap the rebuild time at 7 minutes regardless of times destroyed, but still have the increasing coin cost per allowed rebuild.

  • Rebuild formula would be (faction_rank_at_start_of_war - 1) * 8. Yes, that means if you are currently rank 1 in war, you cannot rebuild except for the normal timeout. However, top factions would likely have the best defenses, and not need the rebuilds as often. Of course, if the War is 1st vs. 2nd, then 1st has a greater chance of losing given the disadvantage of no quick rebuilds. But that’s the idea!

  • For the allowed rebuilds, either the generals or some new “supreme commander” (SC) would sanction who rebuilds, you may choose to rebuild your best defenders or attackers depending on the situation - this is your new strategic factor. A player would ask to rebuild and then must be approved, hopefully that would stop a “mole” from consuming all resources. Yes, this adds more responsibility to being general/SC, but typically, all “general” means today is a larger target on your back.

  • The general/SC could enable an “auto-approve” mode, to automate the above if your faction wanted a first-come, first-serve queuing (this would be no different from how it works today except there’s a total “insta” limit). This could be the default, to handle the AFK situations that may arise for whatever reason.

War Cans

  • Similar to rebuilds, the number of cans you can use to reload your attack energy is limited. Once those are exhausted, normal refill is done, lower the energy refill time to 3 minutes per attack point. New strategy comes into effect here, as you may want to target specific individuals in the opposition given the restrictions.

  • Refill formula would be (faction_rank_at_start_of_war) * 8, allowing 8 attacks per player for 1st place if evenly distributed, with increasing amounts for lowered ranked factions.

  • Either the generals/SC would sanction who receives the additional attacks, with the same approval scheme as rebuilds. The auto-approve mode can be also be enabled.

Summary

By allowing less rebuilds for the higher faction and more attacks for the lower, the higher faction will lose some battles they used to win, but that will mean some other faction gains the higher ranking… but now they are the ones with less resources to use on the next battle. I believe that will tend to balance the results, something which is solely lacking in today’s Wars.

Thoughts? Opinions? Please commence the yelling, err discussion! (FYI for @Dash @kalishane @CombatDevIl @CombatMan )


Competitive balance in war
Non-Unique Rewards [Improvement Series Part I]
Coining during war
Please cap the number of times you can coin repair during war
#2

“In counter to your post. You’re just asking for a huge handout from Scopley, and I don’t agree with it.” - User Juan


#4

Fair points…

Although I believe both higher and lower factions would appreciate the better cadence, most would like more wars vs the endless spinning circle. And with the handicapping, it’s not all that clear who would win. In battles between our top faction and us, we regularly destroy a good portion of them, they just choose to rebuild endlessly whereas we do not. With the advent of the 6* teams, there’s not quite the gap between factions now, it’s much more a spendfest to determine the winner now.

For the lowered defense to end a war, maybe a ‘self-destruct’ mechanism? Teddying achieves the same at the expense of some attacks.

All I know is if nothing is done, the same results were persist indefinitely, why not shake up things a bit? I’d like to see wars on the 3rd day that still mean something.


#5

I hate all of your suggestions, not a fan of forced handicaps to help worse teams win.

I think retreat (NOT SURRENDER) was a great addition and helps protect skilled factions from dealing with cointards, so I really hate your suggestion for docking points due to retreat, it can be used very strategically


#6

Top ranked faction member?

Yes, the handicap is the most controversial suggestion, looking for some solution to keep war interesting. You’ve seen the recent threads that war is also becoming boring, certainly some part of that is the known outcomes. This is one way that could change that.

Destroying the rebuilders over and over gives you the group bonus multiple times, does it make any difference whether it’s a continuation of the current war or another war? You’re still banking points.

Desiring war remains the same is fair opinion, I just think it will become stale like other aspects of the game if left the same.


#7

I would love to like your ideas but I don’t. Pretty much none of them I’m sorry. I would like to see some kind of cap on coining…other then that war is just fine the way it is minus the matchmaking farce right now.


#8

You’re agreeing with some of the goals but not with mechanisms to reach those goals. What suggestions do you and others have to achieve the results? It’s fine to disagree, but without any new ideas for solutions, we are stuck with what we have. Is anyone happy with that?


#9

I’m sorry man I thought I was clear when I said yes I thought it was just find and dandy just the way it is other then putting a hard cap on coining at maybe…twice? and fixing the borked matchmaking system where some factions match a lot more then others. Not everyone is all doom and gloom. I find that a lot of times the people that are all doom and gloomy tend to be in the same factions together lol. Maybe that’s why people on the forum talk about others leaving.

I haven’t had anyone I know stop playing this game in the last 6 months. That’s not shill speak it’s the truth lol. We still love the wars…though we do have a good time doing it though and make it fun. Maybe that’s the problem when people get so stagnant with it they forget it is just a game :slight_smile:


#10

Seems to me like it would just put top factions at a huge disadvantage to everyone else so, I would image they would just drop their rep a ton and therefore would also have advantage as well as good teams…


#11

Nope. Sometimes people are changing some weapons or 1-2 Toons. Or from Melee Def to Range Def.


#12

Honestly, i don’t like any of these ideas. It seems like it would make it less fun. Why handicap stronger players? They’re strong because they’re worked to get strong.


#13

Well thought out but none of these ideas would be an improvement.

War matching is unfair enough as it is without making it worse.


#14

Agree with pretty much everyone on this thread the ideas are well ment but are pretty bad. I will fixate on one particular point, top faction is not allowed to coin rebuild
I’m sure at least some of you here are in the top factions so will have experience in this, but most matches are over in less than 10 mins so by stopping coin rebuild for top faction is basically a death sentence to the general to be a bystander for the entire event, general are always targeted first and many are dead within a min of the war starting, introducing this will mean they may get a hit in each war and that’s not right


#15

Rep has nothing to do with faction matching per @TheWalkerDude comment in War Matchup EXPLOIT

And yes, that was the point, to “jumble up” the rankings. I’d find it much more entertaining and engaging to have the result not pre-determined. Just looking for a scheme that can do that vs the same-o same-o every single war.


#16

The lock only occurs if you do this while you are in the War Party during the duration of the War. My impression is most players have a series of saved defense teams and swap those about to keep attackers guessing, but very few are forming brand new defenses mid-war. Even if you are, until the team is saved and assigned to be your defense no penalty can occur.

I don’t want to penalize any player who honestly is making changes, but want to punish with extreme prejudice the ones that do this purely to pump points.

The most recent feeding exploit in our region is the defending teams are left intact but all the special weapons are removed. That’s not quite as easy to differentiate. And with 6* prevalent, using a 5 Caroline defense team is about as effective as a couple Burts.


#17

Everyone gets a chance at the top spot!! :joy:

The equations proposed are a guess as I said, what would work best is something to be determined. I want this to cause a swirl in the rankings. Wouldn’t that be more fun and engaging to all factions? Or everyone is excited to see the exact same factions finishing in the exact same order war after war after war?

No worries though, Scopely will not make changes in any case and War will become just as boring as the rest of game.


#18

I fixed it for you. :grinning::grin:

They’re strong because they’ve SPENT to get strong.

Yes, it is unfair, on purpose. Almost every faction rolls over against the top factions now. Give them a leg up, they won’t. And the better factions will likely still win but will need to do something other than show up to do that.


#19

It’s not always like this. Yes the game is obviously much easier if you spend money. But coming from someone who has been pretty much only in top factions since I started playing skill definitely takes more into play then spending. Once you have a good solid team what’s the difference then? How you hit the damn buttons lol. There are plenty of people that have great teams but some players stand out in wars more then others for sure (I’m not talking about total war points overall because that is just how much you play not how good you play).

There are also plenty of prestige 12 and 13 players who are average at best because they don’t have good strategy and don’t know the order to hit toons. Think of this as a Call of Duty, League of Legends, Final Fantasy Tactics, Pokemon, whatever you can relate to. Of course if you have great weapons, items, etc the game becomes easier but you still have to play it and you can still make stupid decisions and awesome decisions.

The top 1% of the game are there because they a) spent at least some money and more importantly b) are a good PLAYER. The other 99% of the players just can’t accept that yeah that dude hits the buttons better then me. It’s a lot easier to say ya he spent money. Half the people that accuse me of ‘being a spender’ are higher prestige then I am. L O L


#20

You do that the top factions will quit, I certainly will, we are already majorly disadvantaged with matchmaking, the top factions are where we are because we are more active than most. By restricting rebuild you will end up with an unfair imbalance that can be easily exploited it would literally encourage farming each other


#21

The big thing on here that I would like to see, but know will never happen, is a cap on coining. Obviously scopely makes money off war, so capping coining isn’t going to happen