Asking Scopely Developers To Weigh In On Impair Debate

Benefits of stun
-Disables weapon effects
-Stops enemy from doing anything for 2 turns(essentially also stops you from gaining AP)

Benefits of absolute defense
-Block incoming normal attack damage
-AP down

Benefits of impair
-Disables ap gained from attacking and being attacked (but you can still gain AP from other sources I believe).
-Doesn’t allow you to rush

Can I please get a response from a developer or whoever works on the game on this issue? There’s a reason melee teams are dominating the game.

Imagine if you could put AD on tyreese. He no longer becomes a punching bag. Or what about stun on Abraham? It’s time that impair gets an adjustment because it’s outclassed by stun and AD.

A solution that I suggested months ago was to make it so that impair freezes active skills like it does AP and ARs.

I swear it could disable specialist skills back in the 1st year of the game. That’s why neutralize was so powerful. It would be interesting if it could do that as well again.

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Melee isn’t the only ones with stun. Alerts also stun so your reasoning for this being the reason melee is overpowered is invalid. Both ranged and melee has a type of stun. Melee has a chance to stun one while alert’s stun on def has a chance to stun 5.

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This is where we see some issues with weapon abilities. Absolute defense is two abilities in one: blocks damage AND ap gain. 1 or the other would be enough. Then you have stun, which disables all actions, including ones you ought to be able to still use, such as active abilities or defending, but also disabled normal attacks and rushing, the latter of which is half of neutralize’s appeal. So by blocking all 4 of the possible actions, stun ultimately does 4 things. Taunt still allows for half of a normal attack, so it’s similar to stun, but still comes with a drawback for the enemy. Confuse is all chance based, but it’s ultimately the best of the disabling effects because it can mean the enemy attacks themselves. Neutralize just blocks ap gain and rush usage, which go hand in hand, so it serves a single distinct purpose (or two intertwined purposes depending on who you ask) unlike the other combat effects.

If I were in charge of balancing the game, id keep neutralize/impair the same. I’d remove the ap gain blockage from absolute zero (or change it to 75% ap gain to protect somewhat against using absolute defense toons as rush building punching bags), allow stunned, taunted, and confused characters to use active abilities, and make taunted/confused characters gain 50% of the ap of a normal attack if the effect makes them attack another character. I’d also still have taunt raise the ap of the character who is defending against the taunted toon.

TLDR; scopely doesn’t always consider the far reaching ramifications of certain abilities, and as a result, we get certain abilities that do the jobs of numerous abilities.

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Impair on def is a multi round negative effect while absolute defense doesn’t give you a negative status.

How many threads are you going to create about weapons? Including the word “outclassed”. Seriously they are not going to change weapons as powerful as blue mods or yellow mods such as AD and impair can get for them and if they ever did they should change mods that are super weak like 70 bleed.

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Lol wow bob just edited his reply to a wall of text. Tldr; I’m done

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You don’t want to tweak gameplay upwards though, otherwise gameplay just becomes a 2 turn long clusterscrew where every ability is all-powerful, like two teams of all priyas and konrads. It’s much more beneficial to the long term game balance to meet in the middle, and nerf powerful effects while buffing weak ones. That’s what game designers have done since the inception of video games and tabletop games, but it’s something scopely appears to be strongly against, likely due to the fragile nature of this player base that demands refunds when things don’t go their way.

I do that a lot. I’ll get out a quick response, think about it some more, and then flesh out my response in edits. It’s a bad habit of mine.

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I don’t mind diversity of weapons people only use a set amount of weapons anyway so to have different flavor if certain mods were buff like say 70 bleed turned into 300 bleed then something like that would make characters like barker useful and active skills like Glenn useful. I don’t mind how strong mods like stun , impair, AD, and AP down are there is always a way to deal with those just like anything else in the game as I can’t think of much if any at all that is a true challenge to players that Scopely has in the game. Your last point I agree with thou scopely doesn’t want the back lash.

AP cannot be gained at all while impaired, from any source

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Sigh… so much wrong information… not even worth my time anymore.

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for me they are uninformed arguments … excuses really too basic and without clear foundations, without any encouragement to offend if you say that some time ago you proposed an idea, and they did not take it into account it must be for some reasons.

One Punch Man’s biggest weakness… Apathy!

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Where did I state that melees are the only ones who can have stun weapons? Melees have both stun and AD, that’s what I referring to.

Bleed on weapons is also a multi round negative effect but you rarely see it on a team.

Yet you don’t point out what’s wrong. You agree that impair is weaker than stun and AD but the way you want to balance impair is just ridiculously convoluted.

And you don’t even state why these “excuses” are “too basic” and “without clear foundations”. You think Scopely reads everything on the forums?

Scopely is not a single person, there are people who if they read and what they deem appropriate and suggestions of caliber are taken to be re-evaluated, a normal organizational chart in any type of place.

  • the physical teams are more used because they have simply been released in greater quantity (free or old)

  • You can not come saying that the physical teams are very strong, if you use tought vs them … it’s obvious

  • what you are really looking for is to improve the weapons for the blue characters (tough toons), we all noticed your intention

  • Stunning does not disable weapon effects

  • stunned you can still add ap if you are attacked

  • Human shield does not reduce your ap

I think I made it clear because your arguments and requests probably were not and will not be taken into account

Love you <3

Yeah, because I didn’t know Scopely isn’t a single person…

  1. Or maybe because absolute defense weapons make them harder to take out?

  2. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here.

  3. The purpose of this thread is to get Scopely’s attention and see where they stand on impair.

  4. Stunning does…

  5. If a toon is stunned it’ll pretty much die before using it’s AR.

  6. I’m guessing you’re talking about AD and I never said that it did. It has an AP DOWN-like effect though.

Funny how you act so condescending yet you were wrong about stuns not disabling weapon specials…

I don’t quite understand what you are saying?
All the special traits are good in many ways.Stun gives you extra turns impairs are good but everything can be healed with active skill depends on the toons etc…
But if we Mix certain toons We can’t have it all in 1 team so you will get a counter to every team no matter what.
I don’t really find special traits that useful.(Those Huge ap bonuses are looking more shiny in my eyes as of late)

I think it is interesting to debate about which of weapon skills are superior.

However, it is delusional to expect that the developers can or should change any of these weapons skills. The truth is players have invested so much time, money and resources in a skill they felt is superior over the others. To see that this would be changed over night is comparable to the shock caused by buffing the stats of the 6*s. It wouldn’t seem fair even if it benefits a certain area of the meta.

On the bright side, the combat aspect of the game and it’s development has always been awesome. While Scopely seems to be one of the worst companies in terms of communication, prize structure, dealing with hackers etc., the development of an interesting and relatively consistent meta in terms of combat always struck me as being nothing below awesome. They managed to change combat while balancing it in the next step again. Just think of the new role of crit that has been evolved through the last year. Or f2p Mira’s active skill to counter stun …

(@CombatDevIl @CombatMan @Agrajag dunno if you are responsible for this but whoever is the head behind it: much love!)

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I shouldn’t need to point out what’s wrong; you should know what’s wrong and correct it. Because you’re starting the argument, you have the burden of proof to justify your position. The fact that you can’t even correctly present facts(not even factoring in bias) shows that you either don’t know enough about the argument or you just don’t care. This is why I won’t bother to try and change your mind this time because it’ll just end like the other debates we had in the past: Your denial.

Do you want to know why your argument is so flawed and one sided?

  1. Stun "stops enemy from doing anything for 2 turns(essentially also stops you from gaining AP).

False; you can still get AP when taking damage while stun. This is a crucial fact because if a team has bonuses to AP when taking damage on weapons or via leader skills, they are still getting substantial AP gain when attacked. This can result in a win/loss move if there is someone on the enemy team who can cure stuns with an active skill or AR. (Eg: 6* Mirabelle)

  1. Benefits of absolute defense includes “AP down”?

False, AP Down is a flat -30 AP. Characters with AP gain above 30 per attack still operate substantially different. Absolute defense negating majority AP gain(except for 1 AP) is vastly different from AP Down, especially with the 1.4x multiplier for defending teams as well.

  1. Impair "disables AP gained from attacking and being attacked (but you can still gain AP from other sources I believe).

False, you can’t get AP gain at all while Impaired.

The bigger problems with your argument?

  1. Where’s AP Down?

  2. Where’s every other special stats like bleeding, damage reflect, revive, etc.

#4 and 5 shows that you don’t care about true balance; you only want impair to be buffed so that it isn’t outclassed by Stun or AD. The inherent bias is so obvious.

  1. Why are you only talking about the benefits? What about the disadvantages? How does each special stat operate in relation to the current meta or the characteristics of different characters?

Absolute Defense is clearly gated behind defense only, whereas Stun and Impair can be applied when attacking. Absolute Defense can also be replaced with Guardian 2 in certain circumstances; absolute defense also can’t trigger Cutthroat specialist. How do the abundance of one active skill relate to the special stats? (Eg: # of Recover Stuns vs # of Recover Impair vs # of AP Gain) Etc, etc, etc…

  1. You’re clearly referencing those special effects on weapons, but don’t factor in appropriate effect durations. (Eg: Impair lasts for 3 turns).

Like one other posted, there’s a reason why stun lasts for 2 turns, and impair last for 3 turns. The difference affects how situations play out.

  1. “There’s a reason melee teams are dominating the game.”

You’re implying that stun is why melee teams are dominating the game. While that is a contributing factor, what about the types of melee characters vs ranged characters that are available in the F2P and P2P spectrum? (Eg: Shiva/Carl/Zeke vs Mirabelle/Tyreese/Governor.) Like the past arguments, you take 1 correlation and expand it into causation.

I’m not going to waste anymore of my time if you aren’t willing to have a coherent/factually accurate debate over this issue. This gif has been a long time coming so I’m forced to make it.

giphy

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